For most of her 103 years, Ann Hutchinson Guest centered her life around dance: performing, teaching, notating, staging, writing, and lecturing throughout the world. She recounted some of her fondest memories as a Jacob's Pillow student, performer, and teacher in a 2016 PillowTalk that also touches on her Broadway career and displays her characteristic wit and wisdom.
Ann Hutchinson Guest's Century Plus (2022)
[Music begins, composed by J.S. Bach, performed by Jess Meeker]
Norton Owen: Welcome to PillowVoices, a production of Jacob's Pillow Dance Festival with content from the Pillow Archives. I'm Norton Owen, the Pillow’s Historian and Founding Director of Preservation, and I’m thrilled to be able to bring you one of my very favorite PillowTalks, featuring the phenomenal Ann Hutchinson Guest, a pioneering dance personality whose Pillow activities spanned more than eight decades - from 1941 until her death in 2022. I was privileged to engage in a conversation with Ann shortly before her 98th birthday, starting with some of her earliest memories of coming to the Pillow as a young student, performing and teaching here through the years that followed, and working with some of the seminal dance figures of the 20th century. Her love for dance was palpable, and it’s truly inspirational to be able to listen once again to Ann speaking so engagingly about her remarkable dancing life.
Norton Owen: I’m honored to host someone who has been on the Pillow scene nearly twice as long as I have, and that's saying something. Ann Hutchinson Guest first came here as a student exactly 75 years ago this summer, and she was far [audience applauds. Yes, that, that deserves a, the first round of applause. She was far from a novice when she arrived, having already worked with the pioneering German choreographer, Kurt Jooss, to notate his seminal ballet, The Green Table, and then co-founding the Dance Notation Bureau in 1940. If I outlined all of her credits, we wouldn't have time for the interview. And we'll be exploring many of her accomplishments in the course of this talk. But I do want to mention that Ann will add to her many awards this fall, when she and Deborah Jowitt are each presented with a lifetime achievement award from the Martha Hill Dance Fund. And I might add that Ann will receive this award just a couple of weeks after her 98th birthday [audience applauds]. Yes. I, I, sorry, I, I did check with her beforehand, but she said it would be okay to reveal this, uh, not so big secret about it. You know, we've done several talks together. Particularly focusing on dance notation, but the early part of your career goes together with the Pillow's own history, and particularly those summers of 1941 and ‘42. Um, but backing in, you know, before we get to that, I want to hear a little bit first about, because the year before, 1940, you were at Bennington, right?
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Right. Yes.
Norton Owen: So tell us about that.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Well, I had started serious dance training at the age of 17.
And it was a Laban-based school, the Youth Labor School at Dartington Hall in England. My parents agreed that, yes, I could study dance, it'll make her graceful [Owen and audience laugh]. They didn't know the difference between ballet and modern, and when they heard about a dance school at Dartington Hall, this beautiful estate. Well, much nicer than London.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: I learned, script it was called, and that was the Labanotation system. And I found it easy, logical, and at the end of three years, Kurt Jooss to stay on a year. And to notate The Green Table.
Norton Owen: So you were how old at this point?
Ann Hutchinson Guest: I went there at 17 and left, when I was 21.
Norton Owen: That's astounding. So here you were working with this pioneer of, of modern dance and just barely into your twenties at that point. And, but you, what you were wanting to do then was not this wonderful thing, right?
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Kurt Jooss saw me as a notator, not as the dancer. When I left Dartington, I was finished with notation [Owen laughs]. I was going to dance. I came back to New York where I had been born. I'd always been an American citizen. And, um, proceeded to study and one of the first things mentioning Bennington.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: I discovered the Martha Graham technique. And after all the Laban swings and very sort of loose weighted movements, this rare thrust against the floor. I suddenly had a spine [Owen and audience laugh], the sense of power…
Norton Owen: Uh-huh
Ann Hutchinson Guest: …energy into the ground. I studied with her for a while. And she was wonderfully encouraging to me.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: In fact, when she auditioned me, she asked, “Where did you study?” And I said, the Youth Labor school, and most Americans, particularly modern dance people, Oh that European stuff. Oh, they're old fashioned. And she hesitated and said, “A very good basis for whatever you want to do next.” Thank you, Martha.
Norton Owen: Yeah [laughs]. How wonderful.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: it was. And. I learned so much from her, but…
Norton Owen: And yes,
Ann Hutchinson Guest: you have to have ballet to audition for a job.
Norton Owen: Yes. But not necessarily for Graham. Right. I mean, and, and the fact, the fact that she was ensconced at Bennington, is that what led you up there?
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Helen Priest had been one of the Labanotation people
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Who, uh, founded the Dance Notation Bureau. In New York in 1940, there were four of us.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Uh, young women. And, she said, why don't you come to Bennington? And I enrolled for Hanya Holm’s very special course.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: For more advanced students. Every week you could study Humphrey-Weidman technique, Holm technique, Graham technique. The different kinds. And I took the Graham one and that was it.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: I fell in love with it.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm. And you say you were studying the technique, but it was also with those pioneers you were studying with Charles Weidman. With Doris Humphrey. With Martha Graham,
Ann Hutchinson Guest: With, David Neumann. Yes.
Norton Owen: Yeah.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Yes. So that was wonderful. But as I said I had to have ballet.
Norton Owen: Yeah. So you were studying at Ballet Arts in New York then?
Ann Hutchinson Guest: That's right.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: And so that was 1941.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: And they were very friendly lot and said,”Oh, we are going up to Jacob's Pillow. Why don't you join us?” Oh, well, um, okay. So I did.
Norton Owen: Did you know what that was at that point?
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Not really, no [Owen laughs]. So apparently there were 20 students allowed at the Pillow that summer because Shawn was in Australia. The Pillow had been taken over by Markova and Dolin…
Norton Owen: This is Alicia Markova and Anton Dolin [Guest: Right?] Yeah.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: And um, so all of Ballet Theatre was there.
Norton Owen: This is the company that would become American Ballet Theatre.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Yes [Owen: But in their infancy] it was still Ballet Theatre [Owen: Mm-hmm]. So that was an experience having class with these professionals [Owen: Mmm] and um, I was always hanging back. Because I, my ballet was still rather limited, but, it was amazing to see Alicia Markova, who was so wonderful on stage in class. Her feet rolled, her fifth positions weren't that good [Owen and audience laugh]
Norton Owen: But on stage she could pull it together.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: On stage, she was ethereal.
Norton Owen: Yeah.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Um, and. I saw Anton Dolin practicing his pointe work. He actually had rather good feet.
Norton Owen: And did on stage too. There was, he did something on pointe.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Because a ballet called The Fair at Sorochyntsi, and he was the devil. Mm. He had long black boots with pointe.
Norton Owen: Ah.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: …shoes, and so of course. It made a wonderful effect.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: What he could do on pointe being the devil. So, uh,
Norton Owen: Well, I wonder if we could try a little experiment here. Ann has shared with me some of her autobiographical writings and thank goodness she is writing it down because this is a wonderful thing. I love in, in the way she's written it, how she describes the scene at Jacob's Pillow in 1941, I don't think it's quite possible to understand just how primitive it was. So, uh, Ann, why would you read this
Ann Hutchinson Guest: This line?
Norton Owen: Yeah.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: I have no recollection of applying for admission. I just remember being whisked up Route 7 by my cousin, Fairfield Dana, who is a lawyer. Who generously offered to drive me up to this hideaway in the woods. When we got there, he wondered what his young cousin was getting into. We found the main house and were told to drive up the hill at the top of which there was a house and barns. Our sleeping quarters were in a huge barn called the Ark. No longer there. Okay. In which partitions produced cubby holes for each student. We had an iron cot, a chair, a chest of drawers. At one end, there was an actual room, small but private that had been grabbed by Gertrude Hallenbeck from Albany. She and her father had a leading dance school in Albany. She had come early and made a bid for the best location [Owen laughs]. She was also smart enough to bring a lamp. The rest of us relying on flashlights.. Cousin Fair was very dubious about leaving me in such surroundings, but I was not faced having been camping with the Girl Guides in England where you manage with very little. Breakfast was provided at the house where one of the staff kept an eye on us. Milk and butter were kept down the well just outside. Water was drawn from this well for washing in basins. The two-seater outhouse nearby served our other needs [Owen laughs]. It had been a three seat. But the woodchucks got hungry [Owen and audience laughs] and so there were only two, a small barn nearby served as a moderate sized studio. The main residence, the original farmhouse was where Markova and Dolin lived. The dining room with its impressive open fireplace had been built by the men. Huge boulders full for walls being the main feature. There we had our lunch and supper. The large barn was the dance studio, seating being installed at one end for performances. Connected to this were lesser buildings, which served as dressing rooms, and the school office. Above this office was a large room known as Number Nine. Never knew why. [Owen: Yeah]. Um, the daily classes for the company were also attended by the students. All taken in one's stride except when it rained, and then we had trouble getting our clothes dry, especially sweaty practice clothes. Complain. A bit of a grumble, but it was too exciting, the mix of the woods. The blueberry patches, the swimming hole, and being in class with those Ballet Theatre dancers.
Norton Owen: Well, it must have been such an incredible group to be part of. And you know, we do have photos. I have a couple of photos here, which we'll talk about in a minute, but there are other photos that were taken in that 1941 season and Ann is there, right? You, you were there right along with um, Markova and Dolin and Nora Kaye and, uh, Walter Terry is there, Ruth St. Denis is there. Donald Saddler is there, there, it's, it's an amazing collection of people, um, that we can see [Guest: Wonderful]. And there's Ann, there's also Betty Jones, who was a student also and became, uh, a great Limon dancer. Uh, but that was her first summer here as well.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Yes.
Norton Owen: And, uh, it's just remarkable to see, uh, the seeds of dance in, in all of those people. Uh, here. Incredible.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: May I, may I tell my Betty Franklin story?
Norton Owen: Oh, please. Mm.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: As I said, as far as ballet technique, I was way up there. There was a pas de deux class and members of the company, men were partnering these students.
And so here I am [Owen laughs] hanging into the pot of the barre, and then Freddy Franklin in raspberry colored tights came to me, took my hand and said, “you can do it.” And so he made me pirouette. He lifted, he did. And it was amazing. I had never done any of that. And he made it happen. Well, at that moment, if not before I joined the admirers of Freddie Franklin [Everyone laughs]. And he was here at the Pillow not so long ago.
Norton Owen: Yes. He…
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Age 98 or something.
Norton Owen: Yeah. He had been absent from the Pillow for decades, but we brought him back several times. We did some talks, uh, which were really lots of fun because he had such amazing recall. I remember from that, uh, from that summer of 1941, some of these photographs that I mentioned, there were ones that, um, there was one young man, Bill Skipper, who was here that summer also, and I couldn't, uh, of course I should have asked you, you would've known, but I couldn't, I couldn't, uh, identify this, uh, this person. Everybody else, like I said, was very…you could tell who they were because they were famous. But there was this other young man and I couldn't figure out who it was. And I called Freddie on the phone. This was the amazing part of it. Without even seeing the photograph I described, uh, one of the photos that showed just him and Bill Skipper. And he knew who it was. I mean, you know. Yeah. He said, oh, that was Skipper. You know, and he knew exactly. Yeah.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Billy Skipper was my partner in Billion Dollar Baby. The Broadway show that Jerome Robbins choreographed [Laughs].
Norton Owen: Yes. Well, I want to talk about your Broadway years, but first, um, because going chronologically, really the, the next thing that happened was coming back for your second summer here in ‘42, right? You still hadn't made your Broadway debut until after that [Guest: Right]. So in 1942, you came back. You were already a seasoned professional having been here for the first summer, but the amazing thing about that summer was, and particularly in light of some of the things that you got to later with working on Nijinsky’s Afternoon of a Faun.
But you had the opportunity of working here with Bronislava Nijinska.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Well, Nijinska was not really a wonderful teacher. For one thing, her English was so poor. Don't very jump, she would say, meaning it should be a terre.
Norton Owen: Don't jump very high. Yes. That was the translation.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Don't very jump,
Norton Owen: Don't very jump.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Mm-hmm. And then when you had been in the front row and were, uh, going back and the next group coming forward, you had to walk backwards. You didn't turn and walk forward. No. Like royalty.
Norton Owen: You could, you couldn't turn your back on Nijinska. No.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: She had her husband there who did help. Uh, translating.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Um, but also the two Russian girls in the class. When I couldn't understand, I went back to ask you know, what is it? She was furious. “No talk in my class!” She thought I was chattering. “Out!” [Owen and audience laugh] However, however, when it came to her putting on her Chopin Concerto mm-hmm. She, um, needed five girls. And I was chosen as one. Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel! [Owen and audience laughs]. However, I always had good feet. They got toe shoes and I didn't have to do anything other really than burree. And so the five of us would enter [recites steps]. All this, and with my modern dance background. I felt it was so icky poo [Owen and audience laughs]. Just like the year before in New York, I had been in Welland Laird’s group and he had a primitive dance. And in the primitive dance we were squatted with a flat back like this with our bottoms to the audience and whatever the shape was here. And this went against my sense of decorum [Owen and audience laughs]. So I was struggling between these, these different styles and ideas. So the story with the performance, which by then was in Ted Shawn Theatre.
Norton Owen: That's right. This was the first summer of the Ted Shawn Theatre. So you were one of the first dancers to perform on that stage.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: A kind of performance (Owen laughs]. Anyway, so I had wood feet. The toe shoes were fine, but I wasn't used to the whole rock tying them up.
Norton Owen: The ribbons.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: And I had sewn a little bit, but by the time I was to exit with the group, the shoe was coming off. So I was in the wings fixing this and I missed the second entrance, four girls came up [Owen and everyone laughs]. By the time I got this all tied up, I went around and came in on the repeat of the opening entrance, the ribbon went again, and I missed the repeat of the second [Everyone laughs]. Bronislava was there in the wings, “Ah!’ [Owen and everyone laughs] And I went over and I said, I'm so sorry, but I was consistent. I didn't change your choreography [Owen and everyone laughs]. So, but it was a wonderful experience. And the two principals that summer were Nina Youshkevitch and a dancer from Texas, Howard Sperling. And Nijinska said, “Oh, not a name for a performer.” So she changed it to Nikita Talin. One Sunday, Nikita and I went down to his cabin where there was this smooth floor, and we were practicing pirouettes all afternoon [Everyone laughs]. Well, did you hear Ann Hutchinson was down all afternoon. Well. And nothing would've been going on anyway.
[Owen and audience laugh]
Norton Owen: Uh, you're true. You also, along similar lines, you told a story in the, in the writings about, um, uh, uh, about coming upon two young men who were in the fields under a blanket, and what was their explanation for what they were doing?
Ann Hutchinson Guest: We're sunbathing.
[Owen and audience laugh]
Norton Owen: What, what Imagination. Yeah.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: No, the thing with, um, that second summer with Ted Shawn, he ran it much more like a boarding school. We were not allowed to go down to Route 20 to The Pines. This roadside restaurant, um. Although we did.
Norton Owen: Yes. You were not allowed, but you did. Yes. Uhhuh.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Um, but, and of course with the Ballet Theatre, they were down there all the time [Owen: Mm-hmm]. Um, but what I gained so much from the Shawn Summer, uh, and then later on hereafter was the mixture. He offered ballet, and modern dance and what was called Ethnic. And every week, a different form of Ethnic dance. Uh, Spanish, uh, Bharatanatyam, um, Hawaiian, uh, a wonderful range. And it was for students coming from Poda, Iowa [Owen laughs], or Red Cloud, Nebraska. Who knew hardly anything about dance, if only had their local teacher, this was a whole world of experience. And they could decide whether they wanted to dance. If so, what form? Um, I really felt he offered a, a wonderful education.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: To the younger generation.
Norton Owen: Well, that was the summer too, that he first called it the University of the Dance.
Right [Guest: Right]. That was the name for the school.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Yes.
Norton Owen: And it truly was in terms of what he envisioned as being able to give a very well-rounded curriculum [Guest: Mm-hmm]. Oh, you wait, you have something else? Okay.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Pilates. Um, so we had Joe Pilates himself. Every morning, first thing, mat work. He would say “Up the leg!” So we would, no, he, he always was so angry [Everyone laughs]. “When I say ‘Up the leg’ I mean both the legs!” So yes, that was an experience [Owen: Yeah]. And then many years later, after I had married Ivor Guest, we came and visited in 19 summer of 62, [Owen: Uhhuh] came to visit the Pillow and went to see Joe Pilates, who then had his own place, uh, just slightly up Route 20 [Owen: Right]. And, um, he was very pleased to see us and he was talking about his, uh, health, all that, and then he suddenly leaned over the straight back and hit the ground with his fist and said, “Can the Pope do that?”
[Owen and audience laugh]
Norton Owen: Well, we know what the answer to that question is too. Yeah. And of course you came back to the Pillow, um, uh, several years later and started teaching notation here and became involved in, in, and I want to talk a little bit about that. But then what I really want to hear a little bit about is what came in between, because that was your Broadway career. So [Guest: Yes] you did, you did find your way. Um, the first time was with Agnes De Mille, yeah,
Ann Hutchinson Guest: I heard she had great success with Oklahoma, of course [Owen: Mm-hmm]. And her second show was One Touch of Venus. A friend of mine, uh, said there are auditions. Why don't you come? So I went with her and I think we were a little late. Anyway, I watched and I said, what? I dunno. Um, you know, believe it or not, I once with a very shy person [Owen laughs]. I'm glad I got older [Owen laughs]. Um, so I watched to see what she was doing. Then I went to change my clothes. And she was asking for some ballet steps, and then she asked for a, um, Shawn pas de basque.
Norton Owen: Well, you knew how to do that.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Well, the ballet dancers, the, the modern dancers, Graham. However, I was able to do. And then she asked for a fall. The ballet dancers, of course, they aren't used to it. They don't really like the floor. They and the Graham trained people all went, [Owen and everyone else laughs] you know this one. You know this one.
Norton Owen: And then how did you connect with Jerome Robbins? Because you ended up in Billion Dollar Baby on, on Broadway.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: That's right. Let me see. Um, I went to that audition. Did I do any Oh, yes [clears her throat]. He asked for, he wanted you to come running in, stop, and suddenly you are aware of some evil presence and you run off. So the ballet dancers…[makes a sound].
[Owen and everyone laughs].
Norton Owen: Very convincing. I'm sure. Yeah. Uhhuh.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: So I did a bit better.
Norton Owen: Uhhuh,
Ann Hutchinson Guest: So I got in.
Norton Owen: So Billion Dollar Baby was one of the, uh, one of the shows that was in then the late 1980s when. Jerome Robbins, Broadway, uh, came back. That was one of the shows that there, there was a Charleston number [Guest: Yes] I think or something that was in that show. So were you one of the people who was consulted about that? 'cause you were in it?
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Not only because I was in it, but two weeks before the show closed,] I thought his Charleston Ballet is a gem. He took that art form and played with it and mean the old couple, the witch couple, the gangsters, the uh, collegiate couple and so on, all doing Charleston steps, but with subtle differences. I thought this is too good. So I notated it in Labanotation and so when he wanted help, uh, I was able to come with a score. And two, he had two dancers who were amazing. They learnt so quickly. Um, so we went through everything and unfortunately, there were some weeks before they taught it to the final performance [Owen: Hmm] because things got lost…
Norton Owen: …in translation.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Mm-hmm. Exactly.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: And I was sorry that I wasn't involved.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm. Well, how extraordinary though that you were able to put together your notation background and also your, your dancing experience [Guest: Yes] and make these things happen? I'm sure Robbins must have, uh, been thrilled that you were able to do that, because I know that wasn't the case with some of the other, uh, dancers.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: I wanted to use the material in the Charleston Ballet. In classrooms educationally, absolutely not. No, he was very uncooperative.
Norton Owen: Uhhuh.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: And I said to him one time, could you create a choreograph, a wall sequence, which would be wonderful for teenage students, D students. And he said, “why should I do that?” I might as well be choreographing. Well, I'll make some money” [Owen laughs]. So he was not interested in the future generation.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: He, he was,
Norton Owen: Yes.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Stingy.
Norton Owen: [Laughs] Yeah. And you worked with other people on Broadway, Michael Kidd. I know.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Finian’s Rainbow
Norton Owen: Uhhuh.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Yes.
Norton Owen: And Hanya Holm.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Hanya Holm. My last Broadway show was Kiss Me, Kate!, and it was, um, a lovely show, the music and the dancing. If you've seen it recently, all the dancers have been completely redone (Owen: Mm-hmm). Uh, although Hanya had me come in to, um, record the dance. Because she wanted to, um, uh, get them registered for copyright.
Norton Owen: Great.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: So I had the experience.I had recorded it and then suddenly two dancers were out. Um, one ill another on compassionate leave, parents sick or something, and they phoned and said, could you come in and maybe do dance this part and this, not any of the lifts (Owen: Hmm), but various steps. So the court. Came on the Friday and I was away of the weekend. I had the score, I knew the music. I practiced in the dance in the, in the garden. And on the Monday I turned up and they put makeup from their own boxes, you know, got me all ready and I went on show on stage not having had a rehearsal at all (Owen: Wow). And so here I was, you see doing the diagonal step. And back here, Annie here, here, because I was doing too sharp a diagonal and it should have been flat up. Follow Rudy just (Owen laughs) whispering all the time. Telling me what,
Norton Owen: Well, I, I love the, the amount of recall that you have about all of these things that happened decades ago. Did you keep a diary? I did. No. No.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Not really.
Norton Owen: Well, well you must have kept some very good mental notes is all I can say. Um, and because it's so rich with detail what you, when you tell these stories about, uh, about the, those formative years I wonder though if we could talk a little bit about coming back to the Pillow.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Oh, yes.
Norton Owen: Because I wanted to, um, you, you wrote about some of the experience in being here in the 1950s, and I was wondering if you might read another passage.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: I had, um, approached Shawn to have Labanotation at the Pillow. Now, I have never been a salesman. I've never been good at promotions, and of course I was an absolute idiot. Because I went straight to the point. What I should have done was say, Mr. Shawn, all you have done is so wonderful and your men's group that you have on and on and on. And then maybe he would've listened and considered, oh, well that might be an idea.
But he was quite rude, dismissed me (Owen: When). However…
Norton Owen: Yeah, when this was just when you said, how about if I teach Dance Notation at Jacob's Pillow?
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Well, I. I wanted to interest him, (Owen: Uhhuh, right) having with the Pillow. And then he had a lovely Mexican lady named Josefina Garcia here. She was, um, a nurse and she looked after Shawn when needed. And, uh, she also taught Latin American dances. She had a wonderful collection of costumes. And usually at the end of the season, the students would put on a performance in these costumes and with the steps, she had studied Labanotation and graduated to being a teacher. And so she said to Shawn, well, I'm here anyway. Why don't you let me teach a notation class? So she did. And then she said, you know. If you put it to her as being part of a holiday, maybe you could get Ann Hutchinson to come. So then that was 1952 Josefina taught and ‘53 I was invited to come to teach. And from then on I taught until up into the seventies.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: When the whole program here, the Pillow changed so completely.
Norton Owen: That's fantastic. And, and you made sure at that point too, that you had an outpost here, so that was around the time that you bought your, uh, your lake cottage.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Yes. In ‘53 there was a sign cottage for sale, and it was right on Goose Pond. I mean, literally, if this is house, over there is the pond and, um, $5,000 (Owen laughs). Well, I have a thousand and the bank and I owned it for a while. I gradually paid it off and kept it.
Norton Owen: Yeah.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: So…
Norton Owen: And that's where you and Ivor spent part of each summer.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Summer home.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm. And aren't we lucky that it's near Jacob’s Pillow?
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Aren't we lucky?
Norton Owen: (Laughs) Well, I wonder, um, you know, because you wrote so beautifully about the time in the 1950s, and I think again, like that other passage that you read, it really paints a picture of what it was like during that time with Shawn talking
Ann Hutchinson Guest: about Mim?
Norton Owen: Yeah. Would you, uh, would you do us the honor
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Oh, for each program in the Shawn Theatre, Shawn would come out in front of the blue curtain and give an introduction to the pieces on the program, the performance and the background of the choreographers, which of course is continued to this day.
Norton Owen: Yes, it is.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Apart from his noble appearance and upright carriage, he had great fluency and a secure knowledge of the facts to be presented. These introductions were interesting and educationally valuable. He would end by saying there would be a short pause to seat the latecomers. We loved it the day when he said to set the lead colors [Owen laughs]. Such slips were very rare [Owen continues to laugh]. Occasionally I was invited to join the rest of the faculty for lunch. This could prove interesting if Shawn was in good form as conversation at these meals was little more than a monologue on his part, but he was a delightful storyteller. When the Ballet Rambert company was performing at the Pillow, I was present at a lunch of smoldering fireworks. Marie Rambert, “Mim” as everyone called her did not get the message. This strong, vibrant lady started a conversation with her neighbors when Shawn had already embarked on a lengthy anecdote. It was high entertainment to watch those two [Owen laughs]. Mim was not one to give into that “pompous old fool” [Audience laughs] as she had called Shawn. When she was standing on stage behind the curtain on opening night, waiting for Shawn to conclude his overlong introductory speech, she did not realize that Shawn was facing a problem in that the Ballet Rambert at that time was at a low end, i.e., not the company it had once been. Theory, to his dsappointment. Shawn dwelt it length on the company's past glories, the role it had played in the development of British Ballet, the emergence of Ashton and Tudor as great choreographers. During this speech, Rambert was impatiently pacing up and down other side of the curtain, saying “Why doesn't the old fool shut up and they stay on?”
[Owen and audience laughs]
Norton Owen: That's great. Well, you know what I love about that story is it really you're able to show us, uh, quite literally there what's going on behind the curtain [Guest laughs]. Because not only is, are you showing us uh, Rambert's reaction to Shawn's speech, but I think in a, in a very, uh, generous spirited way, you also understand. And explain to us the reason for the speech that he knew that he had to give some background. [Guest: Yes, yes]. Uh, and I think that is, um, a very telling way of, uh, filling in the gaps in, in terms of Shawn's character. And it seems over the years you must have, uh, learned to have a great appreciation for his. Um, assets as well as sometimes the things that would make him a little aggravating.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: He was very good to me. And, um, this is not a Pillow anecdote, but in 1970 I had been working very hard, revising the Labanotation textbook, which I'd written in 1954, and I overworked. I sat on a stool without a proper back. Uh, my back gave way. I was in great pain. Ivor and the doctor decided if I stopped there, I still have it over my head.
I was given morphine and finally we got the book finished and I took it over to New York to the publisher because we produced camera-ready copy. I designed every page the uh, special typewriter. The examples were pasted in and so on. Just camera-ready copy. And when that was done, I went down to Eustis and stayed with Shawn to recuperate.
Norton Owen: This is Eustis, Florida where Shawn had his
Ann Hutchinson Guest: His winter,
Norton Owen: winter home
Ann Hutchinson Guest: quarters
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: And, and he was just lovely, very understanding because I was in a bit of a stink, but. He helped me get over it.
Norton Owen: And that was really only the year or so before he passed away then [Guest: I thik it was]. That was at the very, very, the very end of his life.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Yes.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm. We only have a few minutes left, but I really, I wanted to bring us up to sort of the present in terms of, I wanted to say something about, I wanted you to say something about your work, uh, what you've been doing in recent years with, uh, Nijinsky’s Afternoon of a Faun because it's really quite a remarkable story. You have this book here of Nijinsky’s Faun Restored and, uh, this was taking Nijinsky's own notation, which he had done in 1915, and you and your colleague, Claudia, deciphered that notation and made a Labanotation score [Guest Mm-hmm]. So that it could be reproduced. Right? And now, um, you have staged it.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: This is the only authentic version. Authentic, because Nijinsky wrote it down himself. Now we translated it into Labanotation, but I mean, it was symbol to symbol. Um, so, and we have produced this in many different places.
Norton Owen: And there's talk, I don't wanna blow any, um, any advanced publicity, but I know that there's talk of a possible New York production.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: We hope.
Norton Owen: We hope [Guest: We hope. Yes]. So it'll be the first time it's been done in New York, since it was at the Juilliard School in the, the
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Juilliard student. Extraordinarily. The third year students had Labanotation and they, each of them learnt his or her part from the notation and they were two casts. I came and saw them and it was amazing. They were letter perfect, but the spirit of the piece hadn't really come through, and so I spent several days working with them. Why do you do that movement? What is intended here? What is your relationship with the other people around? to bring it up to performance level. And in the meantime, the, uh, pre precision suffered a little bit, but it became a dramatic piece for the theater.
Norton Owen: Hmm.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: So, but we had to mention Shawn’s Fundamentals.
Norton Owen: Yes.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: Which I had. Uh. When I came back and taught those many years, I worked on notating, Shawn's various materials, and we published 16 Dances in 16 Rhythms, which every dance student ought to experience, and Three Prayers and a few other of his works. [Owen: But] And this has been used by teachers when they wanted to get the understanding of the movement of, of that period, of that style. Um, so it's nice to know it's been of value.
Norton Owen: Well, I'd say it's more than nice to know that. I think it's, uh, it's really incredible and, and what is remarkable also, I think, you know, looking at these, uh, these two publications, and I know there are many other contributions that you've made, uh, to dance literacy and to, uh, dance legacy. It's truly a lifetime in dance. It's a remarkable legacy.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: It's been a great honor to be asked to share with you.
Norton Owen: Yes.
Ann Hutchinson Guest: So thank you so much.
Norton Owen: Thank you, Ann [Audience applauds]. Thank you.
[Music begins, composed and performed by Jess Meeker]
Norton Owen: That’s it for this episode of PillowVoices. Thank you for joining us today. On behalf of Jacob’s Pillow we look forward to sharing more dance with you through the films, essays, and podcasts at DanceInteractive.jacobspillow.org and of course through live experiences during our Festival and throughout the year. Special thanks to the National Endowment for the Arts for helping launch this podcast series. Please subscribe to PillowVoices wherever you get your podcasts and visit us soon, either online or onsite.