Norton Owen revisits PillowTalk highlights with Frederic Franklin, a beloved star of Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo, dance partner to Alexandra Danilova, and performer with American Ballet Theatre well into his nineties.
See Frederic Franklin dancing with Alexandra Danilova in 1948 at Jacob's Pillow on DANCE INTERACTIVE
'Frederic Franklin Returns' PillowTalk 2007 - video excerpt on YOUTUBE
[Music begins, composed by J.S. Bach, performed by Jess Meeker]
Norton Owen: Welcome to PillowVoices, a production of Jacob's Pillow Dance Festival with content from the Pillow Archives. I'm Norton Owen, the Pillow’s Director of Preservation, and I’m delighted to host this episode celebrating Frederic Franklin, one of the most universally beloved dance figures of the twentieth century. Although I had admired him from afar for many years, I didn’t make personal contact with him until the early 2000s, and I was so thrilled and inspired that I invited him to introduce a screening of the wonderful documentary film, Ballets Russes and engage in a PillowTalk soon thereafter. We’ll start with that 2006 PillowTalk, which we titled “Frederic Franklin Returns” and it begins with my extensive introduction recounting Mr. Franklin’s Pillow connections as well as his career as a whole.
[Music ends]
Norton Owen: Frederic Franklin was born in Liverpool and made his debut in 1931 at the Casino de Paris with a legendary music-hall star, Mistinguett. He danced in vaudeville and tap, performing as a member of the Lancashire Lads in West End musicals and in supper clubs before joining the Markova-Dolin Ballet as a soloist from 1935 to 1937.
In 1938, he joined the Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo as premier danseur, and remained a dominant artistic force in that company into the 1950s. He created roles in works by Léonide Massine (Gaîté Parisienne), Agnes de Mille (Rodeo), and Frederick Ashton (Devil’s Holiday), among many others. His legendary partnership with Alexandra Danilova led to an artistic renaissance in the company in the 1940s, and they danced together here at The Pillow in both 1946 and 1948.
In 1951, he formed the Slavenska-Franklin Ballet with Mia Slavenska, and together they created the leading roles in Valerie Bettis’s production of A Streetcar Named Desire. They performed it here at Jacob’s Pillow along with Dimitri Romanoff in 1952. In 1959, Franklin became co-director of the Washington Ballet and performed with them here in 1960. He went on, in 1962, to co-found the National Ballet of Washington, D.C., which he brought to Jacob’s Pillow in 1973, and directed until the following year.
Since that time, he has held a number of posts with ballet companies throughout the United States and Europe, staging the ballets of Bronislava Nijinska, Massine, Balanchine, and Ruth Page, as well as 19th-century classics. For Dance Theatre of Harlem, he created A Creole Giselle, placing the ballet in a Louisiana bayou setting, and this was filmed and broadcast on PBS.
His stage career has continued to the present day, and he'll be performing with American Ballet Theatre at the Metropolitan Opera House, starting on Monday night in Swan Lake (audience laughs and applauds).
Frederic Franklin: Thank you. I can’t believe I've done all of this in the past (audience laughs)...I have, obviously.
Norton Owen: Now if all of these credits are not enough to astound you, I will simply add that just last week, Mr. Franklin celebrated his 92nd birthday (audience applauds). I wonder if in starting out, if we could talk a little bit about your pre-Pillow history, of which there was plenty and you had such an unusual beginning in...in all this work, in supper clubs and in vaudeville and so forth, it's not the usual route for a ballet dancer.
Frederic Franklin: No. When it was my turn ready, when I was, uh, ready to start and do things, um, my mother raised enough money to send me to London and it was in 1931 and there wasn't a ballet company in England at all. There was nothing. The, the Diaghilev Ballet, whom I saw in Liverpool. He died. And I was supposed to go to the...Pavlova, Anna Pavlova’s company, but she died (audience laughs). And I, my, that was the beginning. I was 17 years old, but I went to London and, uh, I saw in, uh, in the paper. “Boy wanted. Paris” (audience laughs). I thought, well, I'll go and see what happens. But there was, at this audition, there was a very well known, um, English dancer by the name of Harold Turner. And I thought, oh no, it's, this is not for you Franklin. He'll get it. But, um, it wasn't for his kind of, uh, dance. He was tap dancing. And I remember, um, I auditioned and went back the next day and auditioned again, and the lady said to me, uh, where did you learn all these steps? And I just said, from you (audience laughs). So…and she was rather alarmed and she said, well, um, you, we would like to engage you and, uh, you go to Paris and, uh, how old you are? So I lied. I said I was 18. Well. I've sent the contract home for my parents to sign. They signed it, but the moment came when I had to go to get a passport. Well, that did it, you know, but they took me. And they paid 500 pounds. I was under the jurisdiction of the English law because I was underage and they paid the 500 pounds and I lived with a French family. And the first, my first star there, I was on the, the uh, end of a line of 10 boys. And we did tap dancing, we did Spanish dancing, we did everything. And the first star was Josephine Baker (audience exclaims). So, you know, I had a very good beginning (audience laughs).
Norton Owen: I should say, but an unusual one.
Frederic Franklin: Yes, it was. And then that finished and I went to London. I met through auditions again, a very famous young lady by the name of Wendy Toye. And really, uh, she was doing a show at Grosvenor House, the Grosvenor Gaities, and I auditioned for her. And it was fine. And she was working then with Anton Dolin and she said one day, Freddie, wait a moment. So she called Anton Dolin and uh, went, do you know he's coming to see you? Well, I thought, oh dear, there's another dilemma and terrible moment. But he was dancing with Markova in London, in the one of the West End theaters, and he was doing five shows a day. Well, now that's all your fault. The Americans invented this (audience laughs). England says we didn't. And between the shows, he came and saw me. And, uh, I must say he was in a red dressing gown, full makeup, out of a taxi and a few people behind him. And he said to me, do a few things. so I could turn, you know, turn rather well to the left. That's about the only thing I could do. So he said to me, can you go the other way? And I said, not very well. Oh, nevermind (audience laughs). He said, so I did a few jumps and then he said, Wendy, take him. And that was really the beginning of my entree into the ballet world where I now have had a career and it was through her. Then we danced in cabarets. I did two or three shows in London. And you know, from there, there was one day when Mr. Dolin said to me, Freddie, it's about time you became serious about your art Markova and I having a company, and you are going to be in it. That was it. I was in it. And from then on that's it. That's how it was.
Norton Owen: And you know, in many ways that really leads to your first visit to Jacob's Pillow because...although your Pillow debut, as we have mentioned, was exactly 60 years ago this summer when you first performed here.
Frederic Franklin: Yes.
Norton Owen: But your first visit here was actually in 1941. 65 years ago.
Frederic Franklin: Right.
Norton Owen: And, uh, Dolin and Markova were that summer, directing the Pillow. So how did that lead to…
Frederic Franklin: Well, the thing was, um, the Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo was appearing at Lewisohn Stadium in New York. And, uh, in those days, doesn't exist anymore. And, uh, Pat, excuse me, Mr. Dolin and Ms. Markova came to see me and with the company, and I remember him saying, now, Fred, um, I, we've taken Alicia and I have taken over Jacob's Pillow. Would you like to come and sort of stay the weekend? And I said, yes. And he said, it'll cost you $10, you know? (audience laughs) I said, that's fine. Pat and I came here for the first time, and at that time there was. Uh, in one of the houses, there was Lucia Chase, there was Annabelle Lyon and there was Katharine Sergava, and in the Mr. Ted Shawn’s house, there was Ms. Markova and Mr. Dolin. And I slept...well, we've discovered where I slept. I don't know, somewhere on, on…
Norton Owen: it was over what's now The Store.
Frederic Franklin: And I was, I was, that's where I was. But it was a, it was, I had a wonderful time. And Mr. Dolin really, was trying out a lot of people also for the, um, for the um, uh, Ballet Theatre. But it was right here. I'll never forget, we were all assembled for a class and he was there and suddenly he turned and said, Freddie, give the class. I had never given a class in my life, and of all these people, and Alicia, she said to me, Freddie, dear, don't worry, you'll do it (audience laughs). She was a very calming influence in my life, I must say. And I gave my very class here, very first one.
Norton Owen: Well, that's...
Frederic Franklin: In many ways it's been a lot happening here (audience laughs).
Norton Owen: Yeah. Never I should say. Well, that summer, 1941, uh, we were looking at these photographs before right behind you here, this, um, newspaper. It was a full page in The New York Times, and I know that you all cannot see this, that, that clearly, but you can, you're welcome to come up and examine it afterwards. But, um, in the crowd, in one of, there's a photograph taken inside the Stone Dining Room, a building that we still use today, and one of the, uh, people who is not identified there is none other than Frederic Franklin. So his visit here was really documented, uh, in The New York Times here. So we know that this is true.
Frederic Franklin: You know that I've been here in…
Norton Owen: Yeah, we know that. Yeah.
Frederic Franklin: Well, you know, another wonderful thing happened here. There was, um. A dancer by the name of Dwight Godwin.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm.
Frederic Franklin: And here he, I had just done the, uh, Frederick Ashton Ballet called Devil's Holiday. And I had a lovely solo. And it was photographed here. It was filmed here with Dwight Godwin.
Norton Owen: Oh.
Frederic Franklin: And it's somewhere. And I don't know whether we've got it or whether we have this, well…
Norton Owen: We don't have it today, but we'll go looking.
Frederic Franklin: I don't, well, I don't know. And they, there's one of Markova, I know doing something (Owen: Mm-hmm). And right out, oh, it was a wonderful hot summer. I'll never forget it. We did all of these things here and I had a, oh, I had a wonderful time. I loved being here. It was (Owen laughs), it's all, I came here and there are a couple of places I remember 'cause it's all so different now. And wonderfully, so I must say.
Norton Owen: Yeah. But, but, but many things still also the same. And you seem to really respond to when we were in the Tea Garden area.
Frederic Franklin: Oh, right.
Norton Owen: And that all of that looked very familiar to you.
Frederic Franklin: Very familiar.
Norton Owen: Yeah.
Frederic Franklin: And it was here, I must say another thing happened in my life. The, um, the Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo had been called upon to do, make two movies in, um, at Warner Brothers in Hollywood. And we were all very excited. And I remember coming here one weekend and, uh, telling everybody and Pat and Alicia and the kids, but. I was off to Hollywood to make these movies (audience laughs) and it sounded very glamorous in those days. And I remember writing back to Alicia and telling about what happened with, when we were out there and with, you know, filming and we used to have, uh, Errol Flynn and Bette Davis and Alexis Smith, and they'd come and see this madness that was going on the other, on another lot, all the Russians going crazy. And it was quite an, quite an event and, and I wrote it all to the kids here. It was lovely.
Norton Owen: That's great. Where are those letters, by the way?
Frederic Franklin: Oh, who knows? (laughs)
Norton Owen: Well, I wonder, um, you know, going then the next time that you were here was 1946, I believe, with Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo, and that was the year of The Bells.
Frederic Franklin: Oh. Uh…
Norton Owen: You were starting to tell me something that happened.
Frederic Franklin: Right. We, we had, we were here with Ruth Page and, uh Isamu Noguchi did the, um, the decor.
Norton Owen: That's what this, uh, photograph behind me is of The Bells, and again, you can come up and look at it afterwards, but, uh, this is Frederic Franklin standing in the center, uh, on the set that Noguchi designed and in costumes that Noguchi designed also.
Frederic Franklin: Oh yeah, the costumes I had, what Ruth Page used to call the shower curtains (audience laughs) had, I had um, a wire frame here and I had wire that went up there and a bar across the back and down at the back, there was a long panel of silk, which went to the floor, and I had a phenomenal entrance. That church there, I had a, an entrance through the church with this outfit. Well, let me tell you, when we did it in New York at City Center, they, I really got the bird. That means they laughed at me a lot (audience laughs) coming out with this flowing thing in the back. But actually it was, it was a wonderful ballet. But we, we rehearsed here.
Norton Owen: So this thing, this panel that we see behind you, you're actually wearing that?
Frederic Franklin: No, not in, no. I, fortunately, I got rid of it during the (audience laughs). But, um, the, what had we rehearsed here on in the theater and one, I think we learned it and we were, uh, doing a run through and suddenly Miss Danilova hurt her foot and we were all very distressed and she never actually did the ballet. Ruthanna Boris did it after, but it was, um, again, a happening here, you know, in ‘46.
Norton Owen: And there are pictures of it. There is a picture of you and Danilova. Must have been done for publicity purposes, maybe because…(Franklin: right). There isn't a photo of this.
Frederic Franklin: There is there and there are, there's one I know with, uh, another one, a group one with her, with us here. So, you know, it's very historical and hysterical here (audience laughs).
Norton Owen: Exactly. Well, and then just two years later, uh, you came back with Danilova and you, there were two different programs that you danced because the, that summer, according to our programs, it said that the Ballet Department at Jacob's Pillow was under the direction of the Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo.
Frederic Franklin: Yes.
Norton Owen: And so there were several weeks of programming and uh, one week Uh, you and Danilova performed, uh, the Pas de deux from Coppélia and the Waltz from Gaîté Parisienne. And then the next week, uh, you did thePas de deux from Raymonda. Uh, then a piece, a solo called Il Misto Rosso.
Frederic Franklin: Oh, that was from, yes, that was a Oh my lovely Spanish solo. Yeah, I remember that very well.
Norton Owen: And then the Waltz from Vou Danieux.
Frederic Franklin: Vou Danieux. The first time, uh, that we came rather, uh, the first that you've mentioned, I had had an injury with my knee and it was Madam Danilova. Sure said, you know, friends, we go to the place called the Pillow. I said, Cheryl, what are you talking about? She said, you know, up, up by the Pillow. I said, you mean Jacobs? Yes. Where the Jacobs live (audience laughs). And this is what went on with her. She was one, bless her heart, and, and she said, you know, we go see how you are on the stage. I said, well, all right, we will. And I remember, and I, I was getting back after the injury and I came and we did it. We did the performance. And I distinctly remember coming off and talking with people and there was a, a man stand, gentleman standing near me and I was huffing and puffing. And he said in sort of a funny English, he said, you know, I can help you. And I said, oh. And he said, if you do this and breathe and you do that and something else. And I started and it sort of worked and I, you must, excuse me, but um, what is your name? And he said, my name is (Owen: Pilates) Pilates (audience laughs). I am Mr. Pilates was here with a therapy and he was, and he was wonderful and I was one of his pupils (audience laughs). But it was, read that, I remember that so distinctly.
Norton Owen: Well, we go on from that in terms of when you performed, the next time that we have records of was 1952, which was after you had formed the Slavenska- Franklin Ballet with Mia Slavenska.
Frederic Franklin: Oh, yes.
Norton Owen: And then, but you were billed here as Ballet Variante.
Frederic Franklin: That's right. Um, Mia had a, a small company and um, it had been decided in New York that Mia and I. I, by that time.I was a little tired of the Ballet Russes and I felt it was time for a change. So I gave the, the company a six-month notice that I would be leaving and Mia said, well, look, you know, we've danced together. Why don't you come, we'd have a small company. And it sounded rather nice and we talked about it and, uh, it had been decided that we would do in our new ballet company, we would do a Streetcar, The Streetcar named Desire. But that's another story at the moment. And then she said, well, why don't we all get going and you, and we asked, sure, Madame Danilova and the three of us toured with her, uh, Ballet Variante and did couple of Mia’s ballets, you know? So that's, that was another thing here.
Norton Owen: Right. Right.
Frederic Franklin: Yes. That was lovely.
Norton Owen: So that was 1952. You and well, there was a, there was a Nutcracker. Nutcracker.
Frederic Franklin: Right.
Norton Owen: That you staged.
Frederic Franklin: No, Mia did.
Norton Owen: Mia did.
Frederic Franklin: Mia did.
Norton Owen: Ah.
Frederic Franklin: We danced in it. I, I did a couple of numbers.
Norton Owen: Right. Uh, except for the, as according to the program, it said that the Duns Arab was choreographed by La Meri.
Frederic Franklin: Yes, it was. Yes.
Norton Owen: The Arabian dance.
Frederic Franklin: Right.
Norton Owen: It was unusual for a ballet company.
Frederic Franklin: Uh-huh.
Norton Owen: Uh, then you also danced the Don Quixote Pas de deux with Mia, with Mia
Frederic Franklin: Right. We did that here.
Norton Owen: Yeah. And we have a film of that. And then you also danced, uh, the Waltz from Gaîté Parisienne again with, that's with Danilova.
Frederic Franklin: With Danilova. Right.
Norton Owen: At this point in the chronology, I’d like to splice in a lovely moment from a PillowTalk we hosted the very next season, in 2007, prompted by the publication of a book that Franklin co-authored with the dance scholar Leslie Norton. During the Q&A of that talk, one of the audience members stepped up to the microphone and identified herself as Rochelle Zide-Booth, who had known Mr. Franklin when she was a young corps dancer with the Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo. She also happens to have served on the Pillow faculty for five years during the 1970s, during which time she was my teacher.
Rochelle Zide-Booth: Hi, I'm Rochelle Zide-Booth. I'm in the film too. My first year in the Ballet Russe, Mr. Franklin was ballet master and principal dancer. And what I'd like to find out is how you. Were able to separate yourself into those two roles because you were on stage every night dancing principal roles, and you were responsible for the entire repertory of the company. He taught us, I think it was, I think our first tour we had 18 ballets. And, and, and we learned them all in a very short period of time. It was a whole new company, 1954. Oh, yes. Whole new company. And, um, and you taught everybody, everything in one studio. We didn't have many, (Franklin: oh, no, no, no). One studio, Palm Gardens in New York and we, and we were five hours a day, six days a week. And we learned my first week we learned five ballets from Mr. Franklin. So I wanna know how, how were you able to get the energy together to, to then be able to go out on stage every night and dance principal roles?
Frederic Franklin: Well, I think, you know, I, you know, really Shelly what it was you, a lot of, you gave me a lot of stuff, you know, you gave to me stuff, all of you, all of that company. And I saw. That they were willing and they wanted, and that helped me get it out of me. But when I think back, I don't know (audience laughs). They paid me and I had to do it. I just don't know. There were moments when I thought, you know, I thought, oh dear, what was gonna happen? But I don't know the responsibility of it. And then the performing responsibility of all of that too. I said I, I have, I can't answer the questions. It's, it's, uh, well, we're all here to tell the taleb (audience laughs). I think that's a, that's about it. Just leave it as it is
Norton Owen: To pick up Franklin’s Pillow connections once again, let’s hear about two different engagements with companies based in Washington, DC in the 1960s and 70s.
Norton Owen: So the next time you came to the Pillow was 1960. And that was with the Washington Ballet, which you were co-directing with Mary Day.
Frederic Franklin: That's right, yes.
Norton Owen: But you were not only co-director, but you were also still dancing at that point.
Frederic Franklin: I was, yes.
Norton Owen: You danced in Ondine that was choreographed by Mary Day.
Frederic Franklin: Right. Right. Um. I, I wasn't dancing, I was really partnering, you know (Owen laughs) but, and it was a lovely ballet here that we did and, um, I remember it very well. Uh, and on the same program I did my own ballet tribute here.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm. Etelage.
Frederic Franklin: Etelage. It was known as then, right? Yes. My goodness,l is, uh, do you have any, any…
Norton Owen: I don't know that we have any record of that. Um, I'm not gonna be able to pull out this bag of tricks for your birthday (Franklin: No, no, no). But, uh, but, uh, we, we certainly have the program and, and I'll have to look at maybe (Franklin: Right) some of the photographs too. We’ll see.
Frederic Franklin: Yes, I think, I think that was, I think that was what one of the very first bodies I ever tried to do.
Norton Owen: And that must have been close to the time. Um. That, uh, 1960. Of course you've never retired from dancing, but, uh, but, uh, were you at that point still doing major roles?
Frederic Franklin: Yes, I was. I was, yes.
Norton Owen: At a, at a very, uh, this is a very long career for a dancer. You were 46 at the time.
Frederic Franklin: Yeah. Yes. You, you've added very well. Yeah (audience laughs).
Norton Owen: Right.
Frederic Franklin: Right. So, no, um, because when we had the, uh, National Ballet (Owen: Mm-hmm). I did the, um, the poet in, uh, in La Sonnambula (Owen: Oh.) You know, so I was on still.
Norton Owen: Mm-hmm. Wow. And. And you, and you directed the National Ballet, um, up through 1974. And in 1973, um, you brought them to Jacob's Pillow and they, and the company did a story of Cinderella, which was Ben Stevenson's, uh, ballet.
Frederic Franklin: Did we do that here?
Norton Owen: You did that here, believe it or not, on our tiny stage. There was a program note that said, uh, that it had been adapted somewhat. I'm sure it had to be, been adapted quite a bit.
Frederic Franklin: Quite a bit. Well, that's, I'd forgotten all about that one.
Norton Owen: That was 1973 and that was the last time that you had come here until today.
Frederic Franklin: Oh my. And it is very different. Believe me (Owen and audience laugh).
Norton Owen: Well, as I said there, Frederic Franklin never had another performance engagement at the Pillow after 1973, but at the time of this conversation, he was still performing at the age of 92, and I want to share this delightful anecdote, which I must tell you is also available for viewing online with the link available in the episode notes. It’s a priceless story, and I wanted to make sure and include it here as well.
Frederic Franklin: I have now been with ABT. This is my 10th year, and it started out, Kevin McKenzie, the Artistic Director who was with me in my in-company in the National Ballet in in the sixties. He's the Artistic Director and he called me one day and said, Fred, we're going to do a new Coppélia. Would you come and do it? And yes, I said, yes, of course. I'd love to. In fear and trembling, I put Coppélia on for ABT. And then I got to know a lot of the people in it. And there was one moment when, uh they were talking about something coming up for the following season. This is about eight years ago. And lovely Georgina Parkin, I was talking with her and she said, oh, we're going to do, um, I said, what you doing? She we're going to do La Sylphide. And I just said, oh, you know, I've done that with Elsa Marianne von Rosen, and I did the witch. Oh, she said (audience laughs). So she immediately goes to Kevin and says, you know, Fred did the witch. Oh, well, uh, why can't you do it with us? So that was the beginning of my stage career (audience laughs) with ABT. So I started there and then during that, that um, time, David Richardson, who was then the co-Artistic Director, said to me one day, he said, now, Fred, you'll be the (unclear word) the Friar in Romeo and Juliet on Friday. I said, just a moment. I said, uh, what about the choreography? Oh, he says, now come here. He got a piece of paper and he wrote, now you went to, you go to the right and you needle. Then you get up and then he comes on and lifts you up and then she comes on and then you bless them. You go off (audience laughs). And then the next step. You come on and you have, you have the vial and you go out, you hear a noise, you come on and she comes and you, oh, poor dear. Give her the vial. She does that. That goes off (audience laughs). That was the rehearsal (audience laughs). Well, I must say I managed somehow, but I'll never forget I was standing, waiting to go on and you know, I'm not that sure of the music. So Georgina was with me and she said, well, she said, darling, here you go. And they opened the curtains. Well, there was some very nice people who'd remembered me and they applauded. The ballet flew out of my head. I knelt and I thought somebody will pick me up (audience laughs). And then we'll get on from there. And that's how it all happened. And I've been picked up all this since then (audience laughs).
Norton Owen: Well, and you're going to be doing the Friar again. This…
Frederic Franklin: Oh, I have a big repertory now (audience laughs). I've just done three performances of the charlatan in Petruska, and on Monday, this coming Monday, I do the tutor in Swan Lake, which was filmed, you know, it's all on film there. And it's very nice part in the, in the first act. And I'm on four times during the week (audience laughs). Then I have a week to recover (audience laughs). And then I go on and do four performances of the Friar in, uh, in Romeo and Juliet. And, and I must say I very much enjoy doing all of this.
Norton Owen: I’d like to close with one more clip from the 2007 PillowTalk, in which Frederic Franklin is asked about his future. Alas, that “future” is now in the past, as he died in 2013, just one month before his 99th birthday. And it’s wonderful to hear the optimism and spirit that he was still exuding at the age of 93.
Frederic Franklin: The future. Now look (audience laughs). I'm all right at the moment. It, I'm all in one piece (audience laughs). You know, I can still hear a little bit now and again, I have trouble. I see very well. I'm on the stage. I can walk back and forth and what I do, I walk every day. I walk a lot. I've had a triple bypass, I've had all kinds of injuries, but I'm out, I'm over them all. And here I am. So the future, I think the gentleman up there (audience laughs) will really to have to decide that, but as long as I can. And I must say it is not bad being 93. I mean, you'll all get there. I know you will. And enjoy it just like I am. All right (audience laughs and applauds).
[Music begins, composed and performed by Jess Meeker]
Norton Owen: That’s it for this episode of PillowVoices. Thank you for joining us today. On behalf of Jacob’s Pillow we look forward to sharing more dance with you through the films, essays, and podcasts at DanceInteractive.jacobspillow.org and of course through live experiences during our Festival and throughout the year. Special thanks to the National Endowment for the Arts for helping launch this podcast series. Please subscribe to PillowVoices wherever you get your podcasts and visit us soon, either online or onsite.
[Music ends]