Jennifer Edwards hosts this episode honoring the life and legacy of former New York City Ballet dancer, Jacques d'Amboise, in his own words. Recorded during his only Pillow appearance in 2008, d'Amboise reflects on his beginnings as a dancer and his efforts to welcome more young people into his beloved art form.
Jennifer Edwards hosts this episode honoring the life and legacy of former New York City Ballet dancer, Jacques d'Amboise, in his own words. Recorded during his only Pillow appearance in 2008, d'Amboise reflects on his beginnings as a dancer and his efforts to welcome more young people into his beloved art form.
[Music begins, composed by J.S. Bach, performed by Jess Meeker]
NORTON OWEN: Welcome to PillowVoices, a production of Jacob's Pillow Dance Festival with content from the Pillow Archives. I'm Norton Owen, the Pillow’s Director of Preservation, and it's my personal pleasure to introduce this episode spotlighting one of America’s all-time greatest dance personalities, Jacques d’Amboise. Surprisingly he never performed at Jacob’s Pillow, but one of our missions with the PillowTalks series has been to rectify gaps in our history like this one. So in 2008 when the National Dance Institute was scheduled to perform on our outdoor stage, I made a special appeal to the Institute’s founder, Jacques d’Amboise, to make himself available for a PillowTalk. He graciously agreed. And so, just two days after his 74th birthday, he displayed some of the remarkable energy and enthusiasm that had captivated generations of dance fans. The director/producer of PillowVoices, Jennifer Edwards, agreed with my belief that this memorable conversation could be reconfigured as a podcast. And she'll be your host for this episode. But first, you'll hear from the moderator of the original PillowTalk, Suzanne Carbonneau, who offers the audience a brief summary of a groundbreaking career.
SUZANNE CARBONNEAU: Jacques was the first male virtuoso to emerge from the School of American Ballet, which was the school of course of George Balanchine, the New York City Ballet. His dancing made a sensation he was thought of as having developed the American style of male dancing. It was classically pure, but at the same time, energetic athletic tearing through space. He had an enormous stage personality: sunny, open, but also the quintessence of Romanticism, and he was a wonderful partner. And he danced almost every leading role in the Balanchine repertory, and Balanchine created more roles on him than on any other dancer. And, of course, he had a profound impact on the image of the male dancer in America. He’s since gone on to a multitude of careers in dance, including what we're gonna be talking about here today, the National Dance Institute, in which he's introduced over 2 million children to dance. It's really extraordinary. He's written a book about his experiences with the Institute called Teaching the Magic of Dance. And that's, there's a copy of that out in the barn. And there's two documentaries about the Institute. He Makes Me Feel Like Dancing, which won an Academy Award, and many other awards, Who's Dancing Now? follow up. And I can't list all his awards, but I should tell you that he's won the Kennedy Center Honors, the highest honor given in the arts in United States, which is the National Medal of the Arts, as well as a MacArthur Genius Award. And I did want to say that he's a family man. He married a dancer, Carolyn George. They have four children, including two dancers, Charlotte and Christopher.
JENNIFER EDWARDS:I met Jacques d’Amboise once. I was part of a group who hosted a reading of his memoir titled I Was A Dancer, published in 2011. The evening of the event, he arrived at City Center in New York. I greeted him, addressing him as Mr. d’Amboise, introduced myself, as I would be the one who would speak about his work and welcome him to the stage that night. He warmly asked that I call him Jacques and so, I will honor his request I refer to him fondly, by his first name, throughout this episode. While he was a legendary dancer, he was also an incredible storyteller. History, anecdotes, and world views intermingle seamlessly in this interview so I encourage you to pull up a chair and settle in. We’ll begin with Jacques’ response to a question, posed by Pillow scholar, Suzanne Carbonneau, about how he started dancing.
JACQUES D’AMBOISE: From Washington Heights hanging out with gangs (audience laughs). I'm not joking, West Side Story. And so here on the stoop on 163rd Street is my mother determined that I am 7 years old. Not, she can't leave me with a gang on a block. So I have to go up to 181st, where Madam Seda had a Ballet school. And I went up hating it. I had to watch. So I sat down, like you’re sitting. So here is this little boy sitting, and there are about 8 little girls in pink doing plié at the bar (makes a sound). And so I decided to disrupt the class. There was the rosin box and I put my foot and crushed it (audience gasps and d’Amboise makes a crushing sound). Then I'd make little fart sounds and I’d go (d’Amboise makes a fart sound and audience laughs) and like and (continues to make more sounds) like this, and Madam Seda, Armenian dressed in red with black hair, gypsy woman, teaching these little girls, and it comes to the end of class where we do changement, which you’re in 5th position and you change feet, in a jump. And she said, little boy, with all that energy, squirming like a worm, do you think you could get in 5th position and jump as high as the girls? Gypsy woman throughout the challenge (audience laughs). So I got up well, first of all, you can't believe trying to get a little skinny boy in 5th position, 5th position. Right? And then I do this awful jump and change. And she turned around and she applauded and she said amazing. It was awful the way you did it, except I've never seen anybody jump higher (audience laughs).Could you do 32 of them without a break? (audience continues to laugh).So boing, boing, boing, boing, boing, boing. Wasn't he wonderful girls? And then all the little girls (d’Amboise imitates clapping sounds and audience laughs). So now she said next week if you come to class with your sister and sit quietly I'll let you do the changement, at the end of class. Well every night I had to do 1000s changements in my living room. My every, my father, my brothers and sister all criticizing heh. On the way up next week on every corner waiting for the light, I’d do changement (audience laughs). Finally my mother was saying, For God's sake, will you hurry up. We’d be dead before we get there (audience laughs). Finally we get up there and I sat beautifully and then I did this changement. And then she said, Wonderful. But you land like a ton. You have to do the pliés at the bar at the beginning where you learn how, how to land.It's not (makes a sound) it's not (makes a sound again), it's, you're coming above and you, you are light. So I did that then that sit down wait for the changement. Then she said, Now you do the pliés beautifully, you do everything, except in a year you look like this. You have to take the whole class to learn how to do an, to tilt and you know how hard it is to do that. I want to show you. This is en face. This is croisé, meaning crossed.This is effacé, meaning open. Okay, chasses. Now I'm going to do croisé, my head goes. See how gentle that becomes. Now look if you don't do it correctly (audience laughs). You're off balance. And look how hard it is. It's not this. It’s this. It’s on the axis, it turns equally. It's so hard and so beautiful. And it came out of Classical Ballet. French caught into Russian. Anyway, so I did that. Now I had about 7 or 8 lessons, and this is the most extraordinary thing about Madam Seda. Came Christmas, finished classes, New Year's start dancing. Comes June, out of school. My mother says we're going up to Maine, Lewiston, to visit my relatives. And she goes to Madam Seda and my mother was 4 foot 9 inches and very imperious. We call her The Boss (audience laughs). She says, Save a place for my children. We’ll be back in September (audience laughs).And my daughter, my sister Ninette was the best in the class. There were 8-9 little girls and she was the best. Okay, Madam Seda said, No madam. There is no place for your children here in September. And she wrote down on a piece of paper: School of American Ballet, George Balanchine.They are better teachers than I am. Take them there. She gave up her only boy (audience laughs)and her best student. So I turned 8 years old that summer and started and before I was 9 Balanchine had choreographed Puck, Midsummer Night's Dream to me.
JENNIFER EDWARDS: In 1949, Jacques was invited to join the New York City Ballet. Here he shares not only the story of joining the company, but he also sets the scene for what life was like at this point in history. I do want to preface these next few clips by saying that some pretty graphic details about World War II are shared. These details provide a deeper understanding of what was shaping the art and the artists of the first half of the 20th century.
JACQUES D’AMBOISE: My brother Pat, who was old, I'm, I’m the youngest. There’s John, Pat, Ninette and me. So Pat is cleaning the studios, so that we, to help because we had scholarships to pay off. And he started dancing. And brother John was drafted and went to Okinawa as a fat 17 year old buck tooted Roly Poly guy. And after that pill box war, and the horrors of it came back thin, green, color is pale. And when he came back, in‘45, and I dropped the fork at the dinner table, he started to scream because of the…I'm going to tell you a crazy story. My wife's nephew, trained sentry dogs in World War II, for jungle warfare, when they'd go on the trails, the dog would go ahead, and it would see that sniper, the Japanese sniper in the tree and what's stopping. And then the soldiers following the door will see the nose go up, and then it spread out and look for the sniper. The costsof taking one Japanese pillbox was 75 casualties, of which about 30% were dead. The rest remained, in different degrees. And the attrition was so horrible because the that movie that Clint Eastwood did, you should see, the boats would come in, they would be the landing, first the shelling, and then the bombs and the planes and then the boat landing and then that beachhead secured, then the next group. Now after the, the securing group got the beach, the beach head gang went to the next island. And the second wave would have to clean up the island, which may take three or four months, because the Japanese didn't give up. And each pillbox costs 75 people. So what was the solution? What's the solution? What's the solution? Is there any way? So the solution came to my wife, Carolyn's nephew who trained dogs. Let's get tiny little terriers. And let's put a spool on them and train them to run this way. And then they jump in the little slits. And we let go a half a dozen little dogs and on these spools is a dynamite stick. And then when that little dog jumps in that thing, Boom!, and that way we save. So guess what? The ASPCA and again, went to FDR and said you can't do that. So he said, forget the dogs. Go back to people (audience gasps).And of course the answer is war was wrong. Don't need the people nor the dogs. I mean, but you see, sometimes you find a solution to solve this problem, you have something else that's horrible. Instead of looking at what's really horrible that's causing. So anyway, why did I get going on this? I forgot (audience laughs). Oh! Growing up, growing up, okay. So my brother Pat became a dancer, my sister Ninette and me. And I was doing all the children roles. And then I turned 15, and I get the message. Go see Mr. Balanchine and Lincoln and Jerry Robinson. Will you join the New York City Ballet? Well I had to quit school. So I quit, at 15. I never finished high school. The disgusting thing, is that I think I have 10 honorary doctorates (audience laughs).
JENNIFER EDWARDS: Suzanne Carbonneau asked Jacques about one of his signature roles in an Americana Ballet called Filling Station, choreographed by Lew Christensen. In his response, Jacques covers everything from the founding of New York City Ballet to a chance meeting overseas during the war, and finally how he landed his part in the piece.
JACQUES D’AMBOISE: Lincoln Kirstein from Boston. His family started Filene’s Basement, They were a wealthy Jewish family and when they were pogroms against the Jews in Boston, and why they're, I think, Grover Cleveland was governor at the time, I can't remember. But what happened was the police went on strike. The Boston police went on strike for better pay. And they had a Jewish lawyer representing them in court and they won. And then for three days Jewish businesses in Boston had a pogrom, people breaking them down. And this Jewish lawyer went and hid out in Lincoln Kirstein's house because his father was the head of the Jewish community. Anyway, Lincoln was homosexual. And he went to see a nightclub act where there were three brothers. Listen to this. Mormons from Utah, who were musicians and dancers and extraordinary, the Christianson Brothers. One, Harold became a teacher. He had gone to West Point and forever after he tried to teach Ballet classes if he was doing drill. Lew Christenson was one of the most beautiful male dancers in the world. And his brother William, who was brilliant, and an incredible choreographer in theater.Bill and Williams started a nightclub act where they had two ballerinas Ninoi was one that Bill married and another one wasn't Gisella Casa, Lew was another dancer. They were doing matinee, two a day, matinee evening on the vaudeville circuit, and they had a nightclub back where they're throwing ballerinas around and doing double tours and all that stuff. And Lincoln Kirstein went to see him because among the gay community, they were saying is beautiful dances and they went and he saw Lew Christensen and he fell in love with Lew Christensen. And subsequently, and during that time, he also went to the European tour like the English do, where they go to Greece and Italy and so and so they get your education. He went and he saw the Ballet. He saw Massine's Ballet, The Ballet Russes, he saw Balanchine's choreography, he saw Lifar and all that and he got all excited about it. And when he had seen Lew he had a dream, because Lew had been Classical Ballet trained. He had a dream that Ballet would flourish in America and he would be the czar of all the arts. This would be doing the scenery, this is composed, this is the libretto and they're all American. But they're trained by Russian, the best Russian dancers, teachers. And he went to do this and he came to the Island of Venice, where they were just burying a body in their boats. By the way, until Napoleon took over Venice all the bodies were just thrown in the water. But Napoleon put the Island of San Michele and made it the cemetery island, and that’s where they are buried. And that’s where Stravinsky is, and that’s where Diaghilev, and Balanchine looked and who said Who's that? And it was the gondola, the black gondola with the gold things on their way out, and it says Diaghilev. And Lincoln said Ah! Coming the message. So he went to get the choreographer that he needed. And who was it? He didn't go to Balanchine, he went to Massine. Massine, who was the lover of Diaghilev, had been a lover. So was Lifar. And Massine wasn't interested because every single odd piece of choreography that was done, and Baugin and Picasso and Rouault and all these people that were making these costumes. Massine would say, Can I have the sketch? Can I have the sketch? Can I have the sketch? And of course he was the lover of Diaghilev and the artists gave him the sketch. He had millions of dollars’ worth of art, and he bought an island off the coast of Italy. Massine. And he was not interested in this big six foot five-four, hawk-nosed Jewish giant capitalist with his crazy ideas of coming to America. So he said ‘no’. So Lincoln went to Lifar, who was also a lover of Diaghilev, and had just stolen the Paris Opera out from under Balanchine's feet. Because Balanchine was made the director of the Paris Opera, but he had tuberculosis. And he had to go to a sanitarium and had made all the choreography. So he said to Lifar Serge, pozhaluysta, would you please take this over and when I get out of the sanitarium and put, finish my Ballet? And when he finished, and he came out, Lifar wasn’t gonna move (audience laughs). So Lifar wasn't interested in going with Lincoln. So the third choice was Balanchine. You didn't know that Marsha. They never tell you that. Right? They never tell you that. It's always, he went to Balanchine and Balanchine said first the school. Anyway, the upshot is Lincoln Kirstein got his wish, he got Balanchine here. But he didn't realize he had Mount Everest on his doorstep (audience laughs). So he wanted Balanchine to do what he wanted. But Balanchine was going to do what Balanchine wanted. And when they crossed swords Balanchine went off married Vera Zorina, and went to Broadway and did Slaughter on Tenth Avenue and did movies and all that stuff. And Lincoln formed his own company starring Lew Christensen and made Ballets based on American themes, football. And at that time, in the late 30s, everything was movies. Superman was coming out the comic books, not movies, comic books, comic books. So Lincoln made this Ballet called Filling Station about a gas station attendant, and a hold up and an Americana guy. Andstarring Lew Christensen. Paul Cadmus did the costumes and scenery, who had been Lincoln's lover. And Lincoln married Paul Cadmus’ wife, Fidelma (audience laughs) (Sister). Sister. Sorry. His sister (audience continues to laugh). I got a little mixed up. He married Paul Cadmus’s sister, his wife. And they loved each other. And it was a love affair, and it was beautiful. And he did this Ballet Virgil Thompson wrote the commission score it was all Americana starring Lew Christensen did the choreography and starred it. And it was quite a success. Years go by and I'll tell you, I don't dare it’s too long. I'm going on too long.
SUZANNE CARBANEAU: But tell us a story of your, of your coming into the role.
JACQUES D’AMBOISE: Well, that's, that's it. But World War II came and what happened to Lincoln? He wanted to be with the guys in the trenches. So guess what he did? He joined up as a private. He was Harvard graduate. Rockefeller was his friend who was the Department of State, right? And they put him in a camp taking care of down in Georgia somewhere. Meanwhile, the war is going on and he wants to be in it. And he's in this trench, not a trench. He's in this shed doing paperwork. So he wrote Nelson Rockefeller and he wrote John Kennedy's father. Old Joe Kennedy. By the way, my father was a telegraph operator for him, private telegraph operator for him. Anyway, Old Joe Kennedy calls some mafia figures and powerful lists, and twisted some arms. And the next thing you know, Lincoln is associated with General Patton's troop. You want fighting, we’ll send you General Patton, right? (audience laughs) And they put him on a commission to go see, find art work. But meanwhile, he was a driver for a colonel in General Patton's army. AndI'm telling you, this is unbelievable.He's driving from the front. And he comes across a soldier who jumps in front and says, Stop, stop. And the colonel says, (makes a sound) Stick with me soldier. Colonel gets out and said, What's the matter? And the soldier said, our Sergeant, our Sergeant needs help. So the colonel says, Follow me. Right? Now, Lew Christensen’s job in World War II was the grave group, which is the battle finishes, you go out in the field for the body parts, and you try to match them with the dog tags and get them back. If there's a lull in a battlefield, you see these soldiers going out, on both sides. So over goes Lincoln and the colonel and on this rock, and his army fatigues, but bare chested is this golden boy male, with his troops around him all scared to death, sobbing, and sobbing. And the colonel went over and said, Stand up, soldier! Stand up! And Lew Christensen jumped to his feet and said, Aye Aye Sir! Aye Aye Sir! Aye Aye Sir! And Lincoln said, I know what a man colonel I'll take care of, because the colonel broke down. So Lincoln took the colonel and Lew back to the base, got them settled, and went to the urinal to pee. And Lincoln said, standing on the urinal, with his head leaning against it as he peed, sobbing himself was General Patton. Because he had been going around looking at soldier’s bodies and the wounded. I mean, it's extraordinary. So the war ended, Lew came back, trying to make a career again. Never did. Became Ballet master, and they revive Filling Station for me. And I was 17. And then 18, when I did it. There's a film of it around. And that put me on the map. Headlines in the paper ‘Rookie Hits Home Run’ (audience laughs). And then Lewis Mumford came back and so many artists, Charles Gorin. And I remember, I had the next Ballet and there I'm standing trying to get into my costume. And they're all running back after the Filling Station, we want to meet him, we want to meet him. So that launched and because of that, I got a movie, Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, which was my first movie (audience claps).So it's a half hour description of it. But history is so great.
JENNIFER EDWARDS:In 1976 Jacques formed the National Dance Institute to promote dance to children. The first group consisted of about 30 male students.As of 2021, the program had reached 2 million children. The Institute works with mainstream, bilingual, and special education classes. All classes are taught by professional artists and programs run in cities across the US and in several countries. Most dancers come from low-income communities, and all National Dance Institute programs are offered to children free of charge. Jacques was the subject of a documentary titled He Makes Me Feel Like Dancin', which followed his work with the Institute. The film won the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature in 1983 and the Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Children's Program in 1984. In this clip, it’s apparent how passionate Jacques is about learning and the vital role he believed the arts play in human development.
JACQUES D’AMBOISE: National Dance Institute believes that the arts must be centered, not education, to learning. Education is a bullshit word. When did you finish your education? (audience laughs) Oh, well, I got a Master's. When did you finish your learning? What do you mean? I'm always learning. Education implies having to do this and it's finished and you get stamped. You wear a model. What about learning, which is lifelong? And it's the purpose maybe of life, that we have a consciousness. Maybe the purpose is to find out, what can we do with this life that's worthy? Who am I? What am I and how am I going to do it, in the fields that grab us with our passions? Anyway, Why did I get on this? I forgot (audience laughs) (Carbonneau: National Dance Institute) Oh, yeah. So everybody should grow up. You don't have to. Listen, you take math. Does that mean you have to be a physicist? No. Math is so beautiful. It is so gorgeous. It's the ordering of ideas. It's architecture of ideas. There is zero, there is one there is two, take away one there is one, take away one is zero. Can we take away one from zero? Yes, minus one. It's the architecture of numbers and ideas and ideas. Architecture is everything. The ordering of everything is architecture. It started with the Big Bang, you know? Which is badly named. It's not thunder and lightning. It's lightning and thunder (audience laughs). It's movement and then the bang came after. It's the explosion. And what happened immediately? Planets began to form, galaxies, swirling movement. And I'm sure sound, gorgeous sound. Galaxy of ordered movement. That big explosion made the architecture of two children. The architecture of dance, the ordering of movement in time and space. And the architecture of sound, music, the architecture of sound ordered, with silence and sound. The architect, architecture is everything. It's the first art.
JENNIFER EDWARDS: Here Jacques responds to an audience member’s question about what makes a great teacher.
JACQUES D’AMBOISE: I remember the teacher, the quality of that teacher that was determined that you became the best that you could be. And in his class, (unclear words) you were going to be the best and he was going to help you because he was the best teacher you'll ever have. And he did. And we all passed. He didn't, he said 60 is the school passing and my class it's 90. Anybody less than 90 is failing. But don't worry, you have the best teacher in the world (audience laughs). And you were the best students I've ever had. Because you're my students now.Because it wasn't a lie, because he says that every class but it's true. You're the best audience I've ever had. I don't know about tomorrow (audience laughs).
JENNIFER EDWARDS: We will end with what Jacques left the audience with at the Pillow in 2008. He shared three short poems that he had used with his National Dance Institute students to create the piece that they were performing at the Pillow that summer. Jacques passed on May 2nd, 2021. He was 86. In many ways, these poems epitomize his approach and motivation in life, in love, and finding and sharing your life’s purpose.
JACQUES D’AMBOISE: There's a poet, a great poet, Hafez or Hafez, Persian, 14th century. I'm gonna read three poems. Read. I'm gonna say ‘em. Listen to this. He's Persian, which is Iran-Iraq, Tigris Euphrates, right? He never wrote his poems down, he sang them. And after he died, everybody in the country was singing. You’d sing a Hafiz in the morning to say hello to the sun. You’d sing, sing, sing. So somebody wrote them down and there’s probably about a 1000, and they’ve been translated.
I caught a virus last night.
I was outside singing to the stars,
when it hit me
a happy virus.
So kiss me (audience laughs)
Very contagious.
(applause)
Now, this one, “It Happens in Heaven All the Time”
It happens in heaven all the time.
And someday, maybe, it will happen on earth again,
where a man and a woman who are married
and a man and a man who are lovers,
and a woman and a woman who bring each other light
will often and sincerely take hands, kneel down
and say, My dear one,
How can I be more loving?
How can I be more kind?
(applause)
Better than turn the other cheek or do onto your neighbor and so…Much better. How can I be more loving? How can I be more kind? But the best…
The God who knew only four words
Not the word no.
Not the word don't.
Not those words that disrupt or cause disorder. No.
The God who knew only four words,
keeps repeating them.
Come dance with me.
Come dance with me, come.
Come dance with me. Come.
Dance with me.
(audience claps and cheers on)
[Music begins, composed and performed by Jess Meeker]
NORTON OWEN: That’s it for this episode of PillowVoices. Thank you for joining us today. On behalf of Jacob’s Pillow we look forward to sharing more dance with you through the films, essays, and podcasts at DanceInteractive.jacobspillow.org and of course through live experiences during our Festival and throughout the year. Special thanks to the National Endowment for the Arts for helping launch this podcast series. Please subscribe to PillowVoices wherever you get your podcasts and visit us soon, either online or onsite.